Friday, October 19, 2007

5YR 6/4

This response to Graydon's homework for Neal that he did A+ work on had to be replied to this way so I could show the above image.

The image posted above - granted monitors, browsers, digital cameras, light direction, all of these taken in account will change things – were “grabbed” directly off my monitor from Neal’s mix with chip and extra background area and two of my mixes. I didn’t retouch except I put a drop shadow on my samples to give them the same lift in the image when placing them on the extra background. On side of the mixes do not have the shadow. I did show Neal's chip on both sides and brought one in closer for the image size.

Neal said he used the following colors for his mix: I used Cad red lt., Ultramarine, Burnt Sienna, Cad yellow, Alizarin Crimson, and flake white.

I am NOT being an antagonist, I just thought if Liberace’s name was on this - it should be his palette that Neal was working from. There are differences, that would matter to the color and to Rob, imo. Also I had qualified my values were likely off...

Rob does not use the Cad Red lt. or the Ultramarine in skin, but granted your homework was to use his palette and those are included. The skin colors for average Caucasian skin are the ones I showed and listed below, Ultramarine I guess could be used for graying down, but he would prefer you to mix Alizarin with Cerulean in lieu of Manganese violet.

I included the Sienna vs. Umber when I listed my palette but the important notation was that they'd both be removed off the palette after the form, figure, sketch on the canvas was completed, as I posted previously.

So there would not have been an option for the Burnt Sienna although looking at my chip I see where this would help for the chroma and value Graydon chose.

Also Rob would never use a Cad yellow (med) as he would not use the Turquoise Med either that I throw on there. (To see the repeat colors on the actual palette they are under the “Other Color…” post.)

OK, Oranges to Oranges...

Looking at the chip in my book and my mixes they could benefit from a bit of ochre/sienna or Cad Orange, or perhaps the yellow was just off.

Also looking at the chip, this would not ever been considered an average local color for C. skin, but what of the 5 YR 8/2 and 8/4? Better yet a value of 9, which my book does not offer.

The reason I am trying to translate the meaning of this exercise is to understand why it would have taken hours when you know from below – ruby, yellow lt., flake and chroma reduced with Manganese violet?

Perhaps that mix was to be a mystery and here is where the learning curve begins? Or was it to show how hard it is to mix a palette one is not familiar with, thus the chips being a good way to reassure your choices or as you learn - it can actually help make choices for you?


Rich said...

Beth, the point was to illustrate the difficulty of mixing low-chroma colors from high-chroma ones. Graydon did a similar exercise at the color course, in response to a similar quesion. It took him several hours to hit the target color, 5YR 6/3 using high-chromas. Why spend so much time using colors that need to be modified so much, when you could hit the mix in five minutes from low-chroma earths? The resulting mixes are indistinguishable.

Kent M said...

And the lack of neutral grey means you're reducing chroma by complement (manganese violet in this case) which is harder to control than using a neutral grey. While the neutral grey may still shift the colour one way or the other as you reduce the chroma, it will be far less than the complement.

As Graydon has said, it isn't that you can't use this palette with Munsell as your calibrating reference, but a case of easy vs. hard.

nystudios said...

Good going getting started testing your mixing ability Beth. It is hard when you tell yourself unless it is perfect...well it isn't. Mixing on the fly one usually says, "Ah, that is good enough. After all, I am paying the model by the hour!"

Name the pigments that you want me to use. I just chose ones from your list that made sense to me.

As for the higher values. Test your chips on your own skin. Human flesh very rarely goes above V7. With a light on it it will in the lights and highlights, but that isn't it's local. Find what your local is. Remembering what you skin colors were from Boot Camp, I imagine your local is 7.5YR 6/3, and you have 10R 5-7/6 ruddies in your cheeks, elbows, ankles, knees, and knuckles.

graydon said...

Richard said hours. Well, it took me longer than with the earth colors, maybe ten minutes adjusting at most. Two minutes with earth colors. The real challenge was mixing a dead neutral from a bunch of high chroma colors. It worked, but it too a while to tweak the mixture.

Minutes, Richard...hours? : )

Beth, we are striving for precision. Now, try it with earth colors. And see if there is any difference in the two.

ewschott said...

I'm happy to do this with earths, but I am a bit tickled because I am having the reverse thoughts of you guys now... meaning - yikes why would I use new colors when I can mix this so much easier with the colors I use now? Granted I have not had to compare them to the chips to be as concise as you guys so I know they are not perfect.

It will be interesting for me to do this from Whitaker's palette and Marvin's palette (that I have totally tubed).

It's hard to believe I need to remember an earthy palette.

ewschott said...

Neal you can try these colors, this is what I used, I know I was off with either the yellow or complement.

Pyrralo Ruby
Cad yellow lt.
manganese violet.

Kent, albeit not as easy, I don't understand your adversion to graying down by complements.

For lack of a better place to ask...I just need some clearification. We will say; Graydon's palette, Marvin's palette, Richard's palette, Liberace's palette etc.

what is a Palette by name?

Is the palette the actual flat surface you put your paints on - of course - but once your paints are on your palette, is it then Graydon's palette or technically would it be called Graydon's set palette. This has always confused me, and I am sure I have confused you.

Kent M said...

My aversion is that using the complement means I have to:

1. adjust the value of the complement to match the value of my target hue (instead of using a pre-mixed grey that works for any colour).

2. Complements are not perfect. The hue you are mixing for flesh is in the YR family, but only one specific YR hue is going to be an exact complement of the manganese violet you use. So instead of perfectly neutralising, it tends to shift the hue one way or the other (toward red or yellow). Neutralising with neutral greys can shift as well, but not as much.

Those two together mean a lot more fiddling. 'Albeit not as easy' as you said about sums it up. :-)